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jjgold
12 Posts |
 Posted - 06/19/2005 : 09:35:54
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From Newsweek April 26th
In New York City, a lone crusader thinks he has the answer. Dr. John Sarno, an attending physician at NYU Medical Center's Rusk Institute of Rehabilitation Medicine, believes that almost all back pain is rooted in bottled-up emotions. For 30 years, even as high-tech imaging and fancy surgical interventions have made their way into the discs and vertebrae of millions of American backs, Sarno has thrown every ounce of his energy into the inner workings of the mind. In weekly lectures to his patients, Sarno uses a slide show and a pointer to explain how repressed rage—over your parents' divorce, sexual abuse, trouble at work—can stress the body, leading to mild oxygen deprivation, which he says will eventually manifest itself as muscle spasm, nerve dysfunction, numbness and pain.
Recovery begins with recognizing the connection between mind and body. Every new patient is required to attend Sarno's two-hour presentation, and by then most will have read his 183-page book "Healing Back Pain" as well. Alessandro Giangola, 28, says his hourlong office visit with Sarno felt like psychotherapy. The doctor performed some simple tests: running a paper clip up and down Giangola's arm to test sensation, checking his reflexes. "Your health is fine," he told Giangola. Then he began asking questions: How was your childhood? What causes the anger?
Patients are assigned "homework," which starts with listing every source of repressed anger in their life. Then every day, in a quiet place, they must meditate for 15 minutes on one item on the list. Tapping into the fury helps alleviate the pain. "Pain is created by the brain to make sure the rage doesn't come out," Sarno tells his patients. "It protects you by giving you something physical to pay attention to instead."
Sarno has published no academic research on his theory and can offer little scientific proof that he's right.
But his satisfied patients, who he says number in the thousands, swear by his methods and treat him like some kind of lumbar messiah. Giangola, a tennis instructor and guitar player, has had back pain for 10 years, and yes, he's tried everything, even a vegetarian diet (no real explanation for that one). Several months ago, a friend told him about Sarno's book; Giangola flew through it in two hours. Immediately the pain, which he now believes stems from his parents' divorce, began to lift. "I was floored," he says. Skeptics say that Sarno is offering a placebo, which could miss the true cause of the pain. Giangola says the man "is good for humanity."
After centuries of agony, humanity could certainly use some relief. But more important than the success of any given treatment is the good news that both back-pain sufferers and the medical establishment are embracing bold new ways to think about that most exquisite and frustrating work of art: the spine.
Skeptics say that Sarno is offering a placebo, which could miss the true cause of the pain.
© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
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Edited by - jjgold on 06/19/2005 09:37:58 |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 10:24:40
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quote:
Sarno has published no academic research on his theory and can offer little scientific proof that he's right.
Sarno has made crystal clear the point that every single research paper he has submitted has been "studiously ignored"...that is rejected for publication....He references countless other 'accepted' research papers that support his theory(and do NOT support the multi BILLION dollar structural mythology industry)
quote:
Skeptics say that Sarno is offering a placebo, which could miss the true cause of the pain.
Skeptics are people who have not or will not acknowledge that their body is integrated.Sarno acknowledges that from time to time there might be a real cause for the pain,and is careful to use words like "almost always" and even recommends seeing a doctor to rule out any serious condition..
However,the structural mythology majority NEVER ever would concede that ANY malady might be psychological in origin.
You seem to have posted a favorable article and to have highlighted in bold your own skepticisms.....are you curious,or are you trying to convince us he is wrong?
You'd have a hard time convincing most of us....I've been pain free for years AFTER doing the conventional medical deal for even longer.
.....so your point is?
Baseball65 |
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jjgold
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 10:35:26
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From well known Doctor Steve Harris, M.D.
http://yarchive.net/med/sarno.html
Dr. Sarno believes that back pain, fibromyalgia, and other chronic pain conditions are due to repressed anger or anxiety which sets up a vicious cycle.
Increased anger/anxiety causes a sympathetic nervous system response(the "fight or flight" response) which in turn causes constriction of blood vessels supplying the postural muscles of the back and other body areas.
There is less oxygen going to these muscles causing temporary ischemia, so the body switches from aerobic to anerobic respiration in the affected areas. Lactic acid is an end product, and it is the lactic acid which is actually responsible for the pain (rather than constriction of the nerve roots or disc herniation as is commonly believed in the case of back pain)
It's sort of like telling you it's all in your head, but more
complicated. A whole book with biochemistry, yet. For which you pay
money. And after you figure out what the book is really saying, you
want to strangle that no-good scam artist Sarno. Uh, uh, uh! No, no.
Repressed anger there. Hidden hostility. No wonder your back is
hurting more.
I repeat, the Sarno stuff is complete nonsense. There are lots of
things that give you HUGE epinephrine and stress levels, and they don't
all automatically give you back muscle, or even other muscle, pain.
People run marathons without getting back pain. The idea that the same
kind of lactic acid stress happens to YOUR back just sitting in a chair
is, well, silly. It's going to take a lot more direct proof than some
superficially nice sounding argument. Sarno's hypothesis might work as
a grant proposal for a study, but it doesn't fly as a basis to treat
actual patients in clinical practice. It does make him money, though.
Steve Harris, M.D.
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Edited by - jjgold on 06/19/2005 10:45:05 |
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jjgold
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 10:51:38
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: M. Kirk McElhearn book author" (A village in the French Alps) -
Sarno Book offer no help its a scam
Like so many "health" books, this one just tells you about the author's personally discovered "syndrome". He doesn't tell you how to heal it (as the title suggests), but rather tries to drum into you the idea that you may, indeed, have his syndrome. After which you discover that the only way to heal it is through workshops/videos/personal consultations.
While his syndrome may have some basis in fact, this book is nothing more than an exercise in quackery - if the doctor wanted to heal you, he would talk about healing.
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jjgold
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 10:54:48
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Nice to let people see othersides of what they think about Sarno
Not A Good Experience, March 10, 2004
Amazon Reviewer:
I bought this book after being diagnosed with a herniated disk. I understand where he is coming from by saying that the mind causes pain, if you do not face up to emotional problems, however my situation is different. I finished this book 2 weeks ago and my pain is no different. I have thought of everything that could be causing stress in my life and tried to believe that is where my pain came from. It did not work. I go to physical therapy and when I stretch my back, I feel a pinch on the nerve that is irritated. That is a definite mechanical problem. When I stand for a long period of time, I get pain down my leg. When I sit for more than 10 minutes, I get burning down my leg. During some of the most stressful times, my pain actually is better so I can't believe that the pain is only from stress. The book says not to do physical therapy for back pain. It says only exercise for health reasons. I can't do both. If I do physical therapy, then I am believing that my back pain is physical and if I drop it then I am saying it is mental. I don't feel this book works at all. I was very open minded and was let down. With the correct lumbar supported chair, my pain is reduced. Why is that if it is all mental pain? |
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Dave
USA
1864 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 10:58:02
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I'm sure "Amazon reviewer" has impeccable credentials.
Nevertheless, those helped by Sarno are unphased by skeptics, because the proof is in their own recovery.
For every "Dr. Steve Harris" there are 1,000 people who have been permanently symptom free thanks to Dr. Sarno.
Unfortunately, as you point out, the world is not ready to accept the work of Dr. Sarno. Perhaps it is his fault for concentrating his time on helping people rather than performing clinical studies and fighting to have his papers accepted by the stubborn medical community. |
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jjgold
12 Posts |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 11:02:20
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quote:
And after you figure out what the book is really saying, you
want to strangle that no-good scam artist Sarno.
WOW...you really are angry!
That "scam artist" scammed me out of 12 whole dollars!
Nothing like the thousands of dollars I spent on Drs(like Steve Harris),meds,Surgeries,epidurals,chiros(LOL) and other books and back pain novelties.
I'm sure he made at least a dollar or two in royalties from his book I bought.....I've given more to homeless guys on the street to buy a drink.
...all for getting my life back,going back to work at a hard labor job,and playing Baseball again....why that scoundrel!!!
JJ...we've listened to scoffers like Mrosenthal and Diskpain(sameperson) and you will have a hard time convincing astronauts that the world is flat.
Go find Steve Harris,MD and maybe he'll hook you up with a scrip of Oxycontin and an epidural or six.Have a nice Fathers day and remember to take it easy,don't lift anything heavy and if you must bend do it properly wearing your corset......and eat a bunch of anti-inflammatories if you feel a twinge.Your L5-S1 has slipped again,but if the proper excercises and manipulations are done,you may be able to go to work at your brutal desk job by wednesday.
I'll be over at the field launching bombs,throwing howling sliders and enjoying my placebo.
Thank you for enlightening us...what were we thinking???
Baseball65 |
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jjgold
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 11:27:41
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Im Angry and have no pain ( Dr. Sarno saids I should) But I know someone who paid this quack tons of money and ended up having a spinal fusion since Sarno could not help him.
Happy fathers day to you to! |
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robbokop
United Kingdom
75 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 11:33:12
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Hi Steve,
Thanks for the info from Amazon and the opinion of 19 reviewers that gave the book 1 star. Luckily, there are another 208 reviewers which give it 5.
But cheers anyway Doc. If I ever find my symptoms return and Dr. Sarno's theory doesn't work I'll give you a bell.
Robbokop |
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Carolyn
184 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 14:05:09
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JJ,
You do sound so angry! It seems like you are just looking for someone to blame. What is your goal here? Are you trying to convince the people that use this board and have recovered from their pain that they are wrong and they really are still in pain? Are you looking for company for your misery? I am sorry that it did not work for you or your friend- maybe you did not approach it right or did not give it enough time or maybe your friend did have a problem that could not be corrected with Sarno's methods but that is not Sarno's fault.
What I paid for the book was so insignificant compared to what I paid into physical therapy and countless doctors visits. I never went to see Dr. Sarno, I learned everything I needed to to get better reading the book and on this board. It wasn't easy and it took time but I started experienceing eveything, including the traveling pain and vivid nightmares, exactly as other people described. I KNEW this didn't make sense scientifically but I was open to the possibility that I don't know everything and modern medicine doesn't know everything either. Sarno gave me my life back for under 10 bucks and he doesn't even know it.
I wish you the best of luck and I hope you are able to find peace and recovery. But, I think you really should leave this board alone because we all know something first hand that you have yet to discover, the human mind and body are not two separate things and each of us has tremendous power for healing within us.
Carolyn |
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art
1903 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 14:33:00
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All very interesting, but transparently silly. You completely ignore 200 odd favorable reviews and focus on 19 negative. You also totally ignore that the money Dr. Sarno makes is negligible compared to what one would have to pay chiropractors, physical therapists, and surgeons.
I'm confused/ Are you an MD? If so, you should know that placebo effects are temporary. I'm ten years without back pain. That's one heck of a placebo. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 14:44:41
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| The only thing I shelled out of my pocket on the Sarno book was $12 plus shipping. Now, onto why you are angry and yet you have no pain. Perhaps you do not fit the personality type of the classic TMS sufferer. TMS sufferers tend to be perfectionist, do-gooders i.e people pleasers, people who tend to carry unnecessary guilt over their actions and things that they say that may affect others adversely. They tend to be worriers, chronic obsessors about insignificant things, things most people could probably roll right off their back. I have a large family, 8 kids in it, and I am the ONLY child in the family that is "uptight", rigid, inflexible, hard to please. I'm not proud of those personality defects, but it's those defects that lend itself to the TMS "type". You perhaps are not that personality type, you may not have the mental makeup that most of us share, which is a distant cousin of OCD types. Luckily, the book(s) helped me for real short money, yet I'm STILL unburying myself from thousands of dollard in failed medical attempts to "fix" me. I had to recently clean out my emergency savings account, which had about $9,000 in it and now has almost nothing, because of the mounting bills from chiropractors, MD's, orthopedics, PT, rheumatologists, holistic doctors, massages, on and on failed me. And I HAVE health insurance, and I still spent that! So for the $12 I spent, I have to say I do not feel like it's quackery or that I got ripped off. For MY personality type, it all made sense IMMEDIATELY. A relative of mine, on the other hand, has Fibromyalgia, which ALL the docs keep saying is an illness, and it feeds her helplessness, and she DOES NOT want to get better. Why? Because she doesn't have to work!!!!! And her docs have given her permanent disability status so she does not have to work. Now that's quackery. |
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robby
16 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 15:07:06
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| I have given books by Dr. Sarno to three friends. One who had terrible back pain and had been bedridden weeks at a time. After two weeks he called me and told me that it was the greatest gift anyone had ever given him. The second friend who had back pains his entire life, and was supposed to have surgery in two weeks, told me that his back pain went away in a month. They both still are doing great. The third friend sent the book back to me with a note saying, "MY PAIN IS REAL! IT'S NOT IN MY HEAD!". You remind me of him. |
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jjgold
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 15:19:04
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Glad the book help some of you but for Free this brochure offered by the Denver post will help you it explains how to lift heavy items up correctly, exercises to help your back and how to sit properly in a chair and sleep at night. And it costs nothing but a stamp,
• For a free 12-page brochure, "Taking Care of Your Back," send self-addressed, stamped long envelope to American Physical Therapy Association, P.O. Box37257, Washington, D.C. 20013.
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Edited by - jjgold on 06/19/2005 15:24:50 |
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Baseball65
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 15:26:40
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Wow....for a second I thought JJgold was showing us unbiased reviews...the page that our friend linked in is the ONLY 19 1 star reviews...208 were 5 star,22 were 4 star(and positive) and 37 were 3,2 and 1 combined......
Hmmmmm....I'm a Baseball guy and like stats
that's and .861 batting average(230 for 267) and remember this folks:only complainers usually review stuff...I for one have never reviewed the book,because like most people,once my problem goes away,I forget about it.
86% of the people who HAVE NEVER met Sarno,have had a long distance placebo effect....outstanding.
I browsed the negative reviews and to a man,they all talk about how REAL their diagnosis is "....my MRI shows....!!"
Mrosenthal,diskpain,sarno soldier,JJgold and ther newly crowned Dr. Steve Harris,MD.
vs.
The majority
Will that free brochure explain why evolution has hit a backwater eddie and why you and your friends spines are de-evolving???
I guess the rest of us are just genetically superior to you and your friend......I lift heavy things all day and NEVER have any problems......Maybe you shouldn't reproduce lest those weak genes taint our collective gene pool.
I read about people like you all day long at:
http://www.darwinawards.com/
Check it out....you might want to contribute to the greater cause.
Baseball65 |
Edited by - Baseball65 on 06/19/2005 15:33:46 |
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jjgold
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 15:32:09
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quote:
Originally posted by art
All very interesting, but transparently silly. You completely ignore 200 odd favorable reviews and focus on 19 negative. You also totally ignore that the money Dr. Sarno makes is negligible compared to what one would have to pay chiropractors, physical therapists, and surgeons.
I'm confused/ Are you an MD? If so, you should know that placebo effects are temporary. I'm ten years without back pain. That's one heck of a placebo.
Take it from this MD research Art
Dangerous and unscientific information, June 10, 2001
As a former medical and now mental health professional interseted in bodymndspirit medicine, I could not agree more that we thus far know little about how our emotions and thoughts influence our physical condition and vice versa, but there is certainly some connection. The problem with Dr. Sarno's book is that he thinks he does know and tells people that "repressed emotions" are directly responsible for their back, shoulder, neck, hip, buttock, etc. pain and they should forget what they have been told by their health care providers about herniated disks, back injuries, physical therapy, limiting strenuous exercise following injury, being careful about posture, relaxation exercises, etc. Totally unnecessary, claims Dr. Sarno. Through caution to the wind and become a true believer. This is dangerous advice. Most of the information in the book is simply not true. The cause of back pain and many soft tissue ailments remains unknown to some degree. TMS (a term known to only Dr. Sarno and his patients)is a well-known symptom pattern that develops as the result of many causes. Any physical therapist or physiatrist (physical medicine specialist)can explain this. Emotion-related muscle tension is only one of them and is likely infrequently the cause of someones pain. Dr Sarno suggests that the cure is simply getting this information by reading his book, calling him, or seeing him. Interesting. And his caveats aside, this is a "blame the victim" mentality--like with his view of self-induced ulcers, which we now know are caused by bacteria. If Dr. Sarno was convinced his appraoch worked he would have conducted the scientific studies he scoffs at, comparing his method to others. When you read a book that is filled with many miracle-like testimonials, then this should be a clue!Shame on the publishers for letting this one get through. With an MD behind his name Dr. Sarno has credibility that he does not deserve. |
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marytabby
USA
545 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 15:39:34
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quote:
Originally posted by jjgold
brochure will help you it explains how to lift heavy items up correctly, exercises to help your back and how to sit properly in a chair and sleep at night. And it costs nothing but a stamp,
JJgold,
Do you think that our ancestors from 2 Million BC somehow missed the boat on how to lift correctly, bend, sit, sleep? Because from what I understand, they slept on the ground, did hard physical labor, sat on rocks and dirt, used their backs for EVERY type of movement, and yet we have all the modern implements such as a soft bed, nice cushy chairs, elevators, escalators, canes, wheelchairs, etc. and yet we're still told our backs cannot take the simplest "wrong" bend or movement. Something to think about. It can't be that after all these years of evolution, mankind is morphing into some type of soft, fragile flower that is not meant to lift, bend, etc. The brochure may only cost a .37 cent stamp, but look at how much the chiros and PTs are raking in per visit. Sarno gets a one time $12 and even that doesn't all go to him. He probably gets a buck on each book sale.
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Hilary
United Kingdom
191 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 16:29:09
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| jjgold's posts are making me laugh. Are you trying to liven up a particularly slow Sunday? You're not going to accomplish much here, my friend, except raising your own already heightened blood pressure. If you can't see how much you need Sarno, it's your loss. |
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n/a
374 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 16:39:05
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Here's a question, jjgold. What should people do, and this experience is all too common, when they have had every test and scan going, tried many conventional and alterative treatments and spent shed loads of money on trying to get relief from back pain?
If reading Dr Sarno's books strikes a chord and a person begins to look further into the links between physical pain and negative emotions; and if that person begins to experience relief: by your reckoning they are being conned and ripped off. What should they do instead, jjgold?
Dr Sarno is by no means the first to explore psychological causes of pain. You might like to read 'From Paraylsis to Fatigue' by Edward Shorter; a scholarly, in-depth history of psychosomatic pain.
On second thoughts, if you took that Newsweek mish-mash of a badly wriiten article seriously, you probably wont understand it. |
Edited by - n/a on 06/19/2005 16:41:57 |
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Louise
USA
68 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2005 : 18:18:21
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Here's an idea jjgold - try the WebMD back pain website message boards - they'll embrace you like a long-lost sibling.
All I can say is that after back surgery performed by a highly skilled & regarded neurosurgeon(lumbar laminectomy in 2001), lots of PT, a couple of courses of epidural cortisone shots (prescribed by a Physiatrist), years of chiropractic, and some "experimental" spinal shots (a MD again), none of these things brought me any LONG TERM pain relief. For me, these therapies were the placebos. The last thing I heard from my neurosurgeon, a year after my surgery when the pain had returned, was that I needed a spinal fusion. That was 2 years ago. And guess what? I'm fine and in much less pain than I was when I last saw him. My spine has not disintegrated into mush. I'm happily living my life, and thanks to the success with back-pain reduction, I'm also off of asthma medication for well over a year now, after having taken it daily for over 10 years. One hell of a placebo, that. Kudos to Dr. Sarno for finding such a great long-lasting way to brainwash all of us.
My philosophy is "whatever works" and Dr. Sarno is the only thing that's worked for me. If it doesn't work for you, fine. Good luck with that, but we don't need your help. We've found our answer.
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Skeptics say that Sarno is offering a placebo
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